I mean, LC Pokemon are mostly used on newcomer teams, I rarely use mostly LC teams myself (my new team actually has no LC Pokemon on it lol), so I don't see what you mean. In any case, what I'm talking about you being at full HP when the opponent switches into a Pokemon with full health, which is something that has happened before. Basically, I'm just trying to say that it isn't the hardest thing to take advantage of Pain Split.Unless you have double or more the HP of your opponent, since a lot of strategies use LC pokèmon and/or low base HP with 0 IVs and EVs lol.
You make some valid points here; it doesn't have great matchups against fast Substitute Pokemon. What it does have are Snatch, which completely counters Substitute and Baton Pass, and Taunt, which goes through Substitute. Its may not have the best matchup against fast Substitutes, its easily capable of managing it. Honestly, if you don't like Goth, you can probably manage with Mewtwo, which has basically the same movepool, is faster, but has far worse abilities and is stronger. Lastly, Comfey is just not the greatest, but it does deserve to be ranked, but definitely not S rank like Goth is.So I've been playing a couple of games, and I gotta say, I personally feel that Gothitelle is really underwhelming, and is in sore need of a drop.
Let's get the obvious out of the way: Fast Substitute users are EVERYWHERE right now, and all of them completely screw Gothitelle over. From Accelgor, to Espeon, to Salazzle, any of these mons completely screw over Gothitelle's heal pulse spam, to where Goth's only option is to play dice with Magic Coat (which can be circumvented via Struggle or proper prediction btw)
"But that's not what Gothitelle does!" You may say. "It's best against slower opponents!". And yeah, you have a fair point. But again, how many slow mons do you see in the meta right now? Just by looking through the A ranks on the viability rankings, the only mons that Goth outspeeds are Slowking/poke, Lickis, Walrein/Sealeo, Sunkern. Alolawak doesn't count since it can switch out by virtue of its Ghost typing. That's 4/31 mons in the A ranks, or 13% of the meta. Now, does that sound like S rank material to you?
Look, I'm still new
and bad, so maybe I'm missing something here. But when I compare Goth to Smeargle, I think to myself "Yeah, no." Whatever meta Goth got S rank in, that meta is dead, and its ranking should be dropped to reflect this.
In other news, here's a fun little mon I discovered.
Comfey @ Black Sludge
EVs: 252 Spe
IVs: 0 HP / 0 Atk / 0 Def / 0 SpA / 0 SpD
- Floral Healing
Not much else to say other than priority Heal Pulse equivalent being a damn cool niche. Also, Taunt and Tailwind are really, really nice support.
can we swap this thing's ranking with goth pls
With all things considered, I think Goth should drop to A+. It has some nice qualities, but having to rely on Snatch to beat the meta is kinda iffy since it struggles with 4MSS.You make some valid points here; it doesn't have great matchups against fast Substitute Pokemon. What it does have are Snatch, which completely counters Substitute and Baton Pass, and Taunt, which goes through Substitute. Its may not have the best matchup against fast Substitutes, its easily capable of managing it. Honestly, if you don't like Goth, you can probably manage with Mewtwo, which has basically the same movepool, is faster, but has far worse abilities and is stronger. Lastly, Comfey is just not the greatest, but it does deserve to be ranked, but definitely not S rank like Goth is.
The user of Mind Blown still loses HP if the move misses or if the target has Flash Fire, and the user loses if both Pokémon faint in the same turn as the result of using Mind Blown. sourceWhat happens if a battle ends with no pokemon left, for instance a pokemon being KOed by Mind Blown but then losing fainting because of the lost HP? Currently, the the side using Mind Blown should win, even if the pokemon being attacked faints first. Is that how it should be?
I personally prefer the following set, even though it is a one time use, toSo with the dominance of Perish Song in this tier, especially PerishPass Mega Absol teams, it feels like Throat Chop might be a semi-viable niche move. Its obviously not amazing because you need to hit the Perish Song user with it before they use the move. That said, Deoxys-Speed seems like a good choice to try this because with Throat Chop alongside Skill Swap and Taunt, it can completely shut down an unsuspecting Absol, plus it has the fastest Taunt around, usability outside of this niche, and a lot of helpful extra utility moves.
Deoxys-Speed @ Toxic Orb
EVs: 252 Spe
IVs: 0 HP / 0 Atk / 0 Def / 0 SpD
- Throat Chop
- Skill Swap
- Substitute / Magic Coat / Snatch / Protect / Thunder Wave / Psycho Shift / Whatever you want
On a separate note Psycho Shift seems like an interesting way for Toxic Orb mons to deal with paralysis
Thank-you. Sleep Talk most likely works properly in Showdown as well I would guess(?) but it's good to get confirmation on Assist. ...I say good, but unfortunately this means that the current (imo good) balance of MB in the meta seems to be propped up by a bug that most likely will and "should" be fixed :(Sleep Talk and Assist definitely still cause recoil in game when they call Mind Blown.
Fuck Assist, may it be banned and never see the light of day.Thank-you. Sleep Talk most likely works properly in Showdown as well I would guess(?) but it's good to get confirmation on Assist. ...I say good, but unfortunately this means that the current (imo good) balance of MB in the meta seems to be propped up by a bug that most likely will and "should" be fixed :(
If the coding for this is changed, either MB or Assist will probably end up being banned, likely the latter to preserve current meta balance, whch is a shame because Assist is a semi-viable and certainly...interesting archetype (to paraphrase NOC, "This team is very annoying. Not good, just annoying"). Nuzzle is probably the most (only?) worthwhile move to spam though Assist, though I've tried things like Spore, healing moves and some mixed sets (which are too unreliable in the end to be worth the severe team and moveset limitations of running a mono-Assist team).
Nuzzlecist in action:-
As a practicing Mimeist, I wish this set worked in this metagame. I really wish it did. Mr. Mime is just too slow to pull this set off, when the most common Perish Passer is base 115 speed. Just use Dugtrio, Hawlucha, or skill and beat the team that way.I personally prefer the following set, even though it is a one time use, to
A) Pay homage to greatest mon, and
B) Not use an attacking move. A lot of mons run -def to break 4 status move users, once they are taunted.
Mr. Mime @ Black Sludge
EVs: 252 Spe
IVs: 0 HP / 0 Atk / 0 Def / 0 SpA / 0 SpD
- Skill Swap
- Thunder Wave
God, I almost missed Pastebin after moving over to Pokepaste. Its been too long since I've seen pastebin used for the mons stuff. The one thing I want to warn you about: Trick Room is sadly not that great. I really tried to make it work early on, but no dice. If you can make it work, than I'd be happy toHello everyone. I am a new player to this tier, and I threw together a probably shitty trick room team utilizing belly drum + curse to kms and heal pulse + trick/switcheroo and pecha's too heal poison. It's probably a sub-optimal team, Both smeargle and ditto were just "I need high tier pokemon. Enjoy (Probably not) my horribad team. https://pastebin.com/GdJYty8e
Agree with most of this, firstly.Few suggestions to Viability Rankings:
Decidueye UR -> A- Only user with batonpass and curse that is a ghost
Likcilicky Family -> UR Outclassed by walrein, slowpoke and to an extent charizard
Charizard A -> A+ Bellydrum user that can kill iteself 100% with sunnyday
Smeargle S -> S+ Best mon hands down, compareable to lax in gsc
Espeon A -> S Really good utility mon having magic bounce to prevent taunt/phaze spam
Illumise A -> UR Does not have trick like volbeat and oblivious set is outclassed by espeon
Alakazam Family A -> UR Outclassed now that magic guard is banned
Sunkern A- -> B- Really bad mon now that better smeargle checks have been found
Ribombee A -> A- Rise of usage in Espeon/Absol and defog hurts it
Dugtrio B- -> B A counterteaming mon that has a decent niche